The Good, The Bad, and The Censored - KNT DVD Reviews

[felineki]

Yes, you can turn the subtitles off. The main menu has an "ON/OFF" switch for them.

[Cheezit84]

Yes, you can turn the subtitles off. The main menu has an "ON/OFF" switch for them.

Thanks, I'll be ordering a set shortly.

[PizzaCatFan]

Its in your DVD player's menus / on the remote, usually a button or option to turn subs on and off.

I sometimes do it so I can enjoy the actual show without worrying about reading.  The show's easy enough to understand without them half the time.

[PizzaCatFan]

And....apologies in advance for a double-post, but this is important and good news I saw on my Facebook wall just moments ago from Discotek:

If you had problems with episode 9 on your Teyandee set we can replace your disc in June. The first press ran out already so we are completely out of stock. Just hang onto them now and we will update when the replacement is ready.

I was hoping this would happen.  Also they're out of stock.  This means the first run of discs sold out.  Good for them.  =^_^=

[felineki]

Good to hear both that the problem episode is going to be fixed, and that the first run has sold well. I'm having fun just watching through the series for now, so I think I'm going to wait for my second run through to do a thorough review. I've watched 6 out of the 8 discs already!

[robley]

A proper KNT / SPC Wiki is really in order for such a feat.  Plenty of other anime that are far more popular and known have them.  So too should this series.

It is good to hear your at least still excited for this, despite the obvious flaws.  Like you and Vi both said, it's surprising enough that they got KNT and put it out making it a rare thing to see, despite Tatsunoko's subbing job.  SPC is probably going to be the bigger seller so they are probably aiming to make that more closer to perfection.

I have a hard time faulting Discotek...if they've only one fault here, it's that they didn't send it back and have Tatsunoko correct the errors, or correct the errors themselves.  They being a smaller anime distributor and the hassle/cost probably too much to bother with the Japanese version that's only of interest to a small bunch, however, kinda makes it near-impossible.  Disappointing, if only a little, but I'm still having a blast with KNT, seeing all the cut-out snippets and scenes.  Especially like how they had little 'omake' shorts and character profiles (Cardcaptor Sakura did much the same in its earlier episodes), giving full character bios and little tidbits about them.

A Wiki would be really cool! But yeah, that might be a rather large task for such a small community.

I agree with you in general about Discotek. I don't tend to be too hard on official distributors. I'm just happy to see distributors willing to (re)publish old school and cult classics. And I'm super happy to be able to see the Japanese series! I never saw more than an episode or two in the past, so it will be a lot of fun to see the differences, as you said. And, well, if the subs end up irking me, I'll just turn them off. I haven't had a chance to mention this yet, but in my 10 year absence from the SPC community I've picked up quite a bit of Japanese (not enough to claim fluency, but enough to pass level 2 of the JLPT). I'll miss out on some puns and references and stuff, but I could probably manage for the most part.

If you had problems with episode 9 on your Teyandee set we can replace your disc in June. The first press ran out already so we are completely out of stock. Just hang onto them now and we will update when the replacement is ready.

I'm definitely glad to hear this! I hope they'll be able to ship the replacements out overseas. And yay to them selling out! That's great!

[Violet]

My own very brief review now that I've had time to start watching my DVDs:
The quality of the video is everything I hoped for.  Considering when KNT was made, this is as good as it gets.  There's no point in going blue-ray for a 20+ year old anime made with hand painted cels.  For that alone it's worth the price.  I would have bought the Japanese DVD set for a higher price with no subtitles and (I assume) limited to my region free DVD player if not for this set.

The subtitles...they aren't the best, but far from the worst.  I know enough Japanese to where I'm frequently catching the little changes and saying to myself "that's not what they said!".  But, really it's close enough.  If you don't understand much Japanese you'll never notice.  You can follow the story, and the subtitles might not be exactly what was said, but it is usually what was meant (or something close).  I guess "Teyandee!" can mean "Listen up!" or "Jebus!" depending on the situation, and "Sukashii" does sound like "Skashee".

[Sinder]

*snort*

[Tigriss]

(Note: I've made a correction in my original post of this thread.)

I admit I may have had a knee-jerk reaction to the translation, since I was comparing it to the three episodes that Project Dream subbed. We worked really hard to ensure a translation as accurate as possible without coming across as too stiff or "wooden". We also tried to make sure we explained the jokes and puns, since the number one complaint I hear about KNT is that it's "not as funny" compared to SPC. I'd argue that KNT is still pretty darn hilarious even if it has a more serious and coherent plot, but I think it helps when Western viewers can understand the verbal humor as well as the visual slapstick.

The subtitles...they aren't the best, but far from the worst.  I know enough Japanese to where I'm frequently catching the little changes and saying to myself "that's not what they said!".  But, really it's close enough.  If you don't understand much Japanese you'll never notice.  You can follow the story, and the subtitles might not be exactly what was said, but it is usually what was meant (or something close).

You're probably right about that, Vi. I guess it's a pretty decent translation most of the time and it might not be fair to nitpick every little thing. It just bugs those of us who can understand more Japanese than the average viewer. That said, I'm still annoyed about the censorship. Maybe they're trying to tone it down in order to appeal to a new generation of younger anime enthusiasts, I dunno, but most of the people who are going to buy KNT in the first place are us loyal fans, and with a few exceptions, we're not little kids anymore.

Another thing I've been noticing as I've watched more episodes is that there are a lot of typos, and I think there might even be a few missing lines, but I'd need to double check. This isn't the sort of thing I'd expect from a professional sub. It's great that they fixed the timing error on episode 9, but I wonder if they'd consider fixing this other stuff too or if that's too much to ask for at this point. I'm still considering a re-subbing project, but I know that will be hard to put together, especially these days.

[felineki]

I'd definitely contribute to a re-subbing effort should we ever organize one. I'm planning on doing a thorough review of each episode eventually and pointing out bits that I think could be improved, but simply having a complete sub job to use as a base of sorts should go a long way toward making a re-subbing effort feasible.

[Tigriss]

Double-posting (edit: or maybe not quite) so I can reply to some other people without making another huge post.

Sorry, my sincere apologies, I did not know I wasn't to post it there, and I though it get more users one the forums  

Don't sweat it too much, I wasn't mad at you. I was just concerned about Discotek (and other fans on facebook) reading a post where I was venting, even though I'm still very grateful to have this DVD release. There are things about the subs that annoy me, but I didn't want to come across as bashing it or them.

It seems the translators have made a running gag of translating "Teyandee!" as something different every time during the opening narration before every episode. Some of the more exotic examples include "Stop! Pizza Time!" and "Catabunga!"

After seeing this myself, I've learned to just laugh and shrug it off. I guess some of them are pretty funny.

A Wiki would be really cool! But yeah, that might be a rather large task for such a small community.

We actually have a couple Wikis for both KNT and SPC, last I checked. We just need some more dedicated members. I've fixed articles myself a few times, but haven't done much recently.

I'd definitely contribute to a re-subbing effort should we ever organize one. I'm planning on doing a thorough review of each episode eventually and pointing out bits that I think could be improved, but simply having a complete sub job to use as a base of sorts should go a long way toward making a re-subbing effort feasible.

Fastest volunteer ever. Your assistance would definitely be welcome should we ever get to work seriously on this thing. ^^

[Clover]

I haven't seen the KNT DVDs yet but I think I'm just going to pretend it's like a Suikoden translation (plenty of errors and a segment or two where the game wasn't translated at all).

[PizzaCatFan]

I haven't seen the KNT DVDs yet but I think I'm just going to pretend it's like a Suikoden translation (plenty of errors and a segment or two where the game wasn't translated at all).

You'll find a lot of 1990s-era JRPGs were translated 'poorly' (by purists' standards), but they wound up having cheesy lines that have stood the test of time.

It was what it was back then, especially during the 16-bit era, due to limitations in technology and space to place text.  Nowadays there isn't any excuse for it.

I'll admit, there's sometimes I feel we are basically 'fed' various translations of anything from Japan, and it's claimed to be the 'right one' or 'most correct' one.  From fansubs, to 'hacks' of games, to 'official' released media.  I sometimes question what is the 'correct' one?

And no, it's not always the fans who are right, contrary to popular belief, nor is it the official released version (as we have seen with KNT).  Even basic courses in Japanese that are offered at universities, or those 'learn Japanese in 10 minutes' things you can buy for 100s of bucks, don't always get it completely right.  It's mostly about the jokes, puns, and 'what we find funny' (which are mostly culture-dependent), don't translate to other cultures / languages, ditto this for Japanese-to-other cultures/languages.

KNT isn't the only victim....I'm sure they did their best, but it wasn't going to be perfect.  Another anime series, Azumanga Daioh!, was up against a lot of the same trouble.  The end result was fine by some, disliked by others in the fanbase.

======

Tigriss, I could use something to do.  Need a more dedicated member to clean up that Wiki, let me know on the SPC end.  I will throw in what I can.

I've not done too much on the Wikipedia-code side of things, but it can't be that hard.

[petran79]

thanks  Tigriss for clearing things up regarding the translation. I knew something wasnt right.

I thought the translation would be a little more detailed, even including text and a booklet with cultural references. Eg like in the series Abenobashi.

But it seems they deemed that it wasnt worth to spend that much, since the user base would be too small to justify the costs.
so we got a hasty translation instead. 

they havent even sent the replacement DVD for episode 9.

well we cant have both like releasing at the same time old series and have excellent translation and extras....

I haven't seen the KNT DVDs yet but I think I'm just going to pretend it's like a Suikoden translation (plenty of errors and a segment or two where the game wasn't translated at all).

You'll find a lot of 1990s-era JRPGs were translated 'poorly' (by purists' standards), but they wound up having cheesy lines that have stood the test of time.

It was what it was back then, especially during the 16-bit era, due to limitations in technology and space to place text.  Nowadays there isn't any excuse for it.
 

this is how a translation is in reallity....

http://xseedgames.blogspot.gr/2011/02/reports-of-my-death-have-been-greatly.html

[Tigriss]

Tigriss, I could use something to do.  Need a more dedicated member to clean up that Wiki, let me know on the SPC end.  I will throw in what I can.

I've not done too much on the Wikipedia-code side of things, but it can't be that hard.

I'm not sure what you're asking me. Are you asking my permission to edit the Wiki? You don't need to do that, anyone is free to edit it.

[Clover]

You'll find a lot of 1990s-era JRPGs were translated 'poorly' (by purists' standards), but they wound up having cheesy lines that have stood the test of time.

It was what it was back then, especially during the 16-bit era, due to limitations in technology and space to place text.  Nowadays there isn't any excuse for it.

I'll admit, there's sometimes I feel we are basically 'fed' various translations of anything from Japan, and it's claimed to be the 'right one' or 'most correct' one.  From fansubs, to 'hacks' of games, to 'official' released media.  I sometimes question what is the 'correct' one?

And no, it's not always the fans who are right, contrary to popular belief, nor is it the official released version (as we have seen with KNT).  Even basic courses in Japanese that are offered at universities, or those 'learn Japanese in 10 minutes' things you can buy for 100s of bucks, don't always get it completely right.  It's mostly about the jokes, puns, and 'what we find funny' (which are mostly culture-dependent), don't translate to other cultures / languages, ditto this for Japanese-to-other cultures/languages.

KNT isn't the only victim....I'm sure they did their best, but it wasn't going to be perfect.  Another anime series, Azumanga Daioh!, was up against a lot of the same trouble.  The end result was fine by some, disliked by others in the fanbase.

======

Suikoden in particular suffered from "You have two weeks to translate these tens of thousands of lines of text" resulting in inconsistent spellings, a few awkward lines, and well....

.

This happens several times.

From what little I've seen from the KNT release budget/time problems are similar.  What I was trying to get at is I'll love it like Suikoden II despite (and partly because of) its faults anyway.

[Tigriss]

Wow, that's just awful for a professional translation. But that was kind of the attitude the industry seemed to have toward translating games back then. And at least it gave us some memorable and humorous quotes, such as "All your base are belong to us" and the like.

[Clover]

Wow, that's just awful for a professional translation. But that was kind of the attitude the industry seemed to have toward translating games back then. And at least it gave us some memorable and humorous quotes, such as "All your base are belong to us" and the like.

It is bad for a professional translation, but the gibberish became a part of the game itself.  You're wandering around in the woods and you stumble across this guy just standing there waiting to give you advice and then it's b 8nibnlro9;lbn.  It's really funny.  Recruiting the character that plays the soundtrack and then only getting silence from her was not as funny.   I'm trying to say that it's best to roll with the punches even though that's frustrating with KNT in particular.

[Clover]

I just got the KNT dvd set this morning.  I haven't had time to watch the whole thing yet, but I have a few thoughts so far.  My understanding of Japanese is non existent so I'm probably missing things that other people are seeing.

First off, this seems like a very difficult show to translate.  I can tell that there are a lot of cultural references and puns that are flying over my head and it drives me crazy.  Sometimes translator's notes can help, but the translation's main focus needs to be on clarity and adding information can hurt that pretty quickly, but I really wish there was something.  A better translation team would have helped here, any "additions" by the team used would have made things worse.

Some of the problem with the translation is that it's hard to tell who the audience is supposed to be.  They'll censor some lines like the one you mentioned and then leave others in.  Some of the dialogue feels like a bad translation of an old samurai movie which I can't tell if it's intentional or not- if they're using an older form of Japanese some of the line changes make a little more sense.  The really obvious errors like mixing up samurai and ninja are irritating but they don't hurt my understanding of the show.  The translation of honorifics isn't great, but they get the point across.  I'm not a big fan of translating honorifics unless it's either a huge part of the story or you're translating for a group of people who really care about their significance.  Persona 4 is the best example of that I can think of- the closeness between the group of friends is a big part of the plot and if you're playing that series of games you're pretty far gone into nerd territory anyway.  The translations for the members of the court bother me less than the "Miss Omitsu" bit- you still get the point with the former, but you lose the boys' over familiarity with Omitsu.  I think they were trying to translate for people who aren't familiar with honorifics, but this is a subtitle only release of a 20+ year old anime.  Anyone who bought it is going to understand the honorifics untranslated.

I think that's what happened with the use of 'Teyandee' too.  Does anyone else remember watching the Naruto dub and being constantly irritated with "Believe it!" being said at the end of every sentence in place of "Dattebayo!"?  The mascot catchphrase thing doesn't translate well and sometimes gets irritating even in just the Japanese version.  Some situations lend themselves to workarounds better than others- the English version of Persona 4 changes Teddie's habit of saying -kuma at the end of every sentence to bear puns where they fit.  Teddie gets annoying in the subbed version of the anime with -kuma -kuma -kuma tacked on to everything he says, so I understand what they were trying to do.  Leaving 'Teyandee' alone would have been the best option though.

It's not a pretty translation job, but it gets the necessary information across.  Ko'on No Kami's plots are almost coherent (no translation job would change that) and there are some bits that are really funny!  I hadn't seen the lyrics to Pururun and Omitsu's song before and they added a lot to the episode.  Most of the plot and a lot of the humor is in the animation itself though so it's easy to guess what's going on- even with SPC they mostly guessed right on the plots without any idea of what the dialogue was.

I'm still psyched to finally have a copy of this.  The translation isn't great, but it works and the picture and sound quality is great.  For people who haven't seen it, it's a lot like SPC but a little more deadpan and with a less grating soundtrack.

[Violent Violet]

Hello minna! (Yeah I know, I'm new, but I've just introduced myself in the appropriate topic ^^).
Well, I also bought the DVD, and thanks to Discotek's subtitles, I FINALLY understood the Kyattou Ninden Teyandee.
When the DVD arrived (My mood was: "Oh my my my!! This is a dream! I can't believe it! I waited for years and I finally I'll know the real Kyattou Ninden Teyandee! xD) I started to translate it in my language (Italian). I worked really hard, but now I've got all the episodes translated! But hell yeah... I'm not japanese, but I also noticed that some subs aren't correct... and I was really disappointed when I discovered that they censored all the funny parts! 
I entrust everybody to buy the DVD, because they're the only way to understand KNT for people who can't speak japanese!
But well, I have a sort of proposal... The censored parts aren't so much, so why don't we talk together about these? ^^ I'd like to know the truth about KNT!

P.S. I don't know why (well, maybe I know... I'm really clumsy when I use internet  ) but I can't contact the user called Princess Vi. Princess, if you read my message here, and you're looking for an Italian referring for KNT, please contact me! ^^ I'm glad to help and my hobby is translate! Maybe I can be of some help!

For example, in the episode 01, you guys had just explained that Ko'on-no-Kami instigates Wanko-no-Kami asking him if he is a "Homo" and the meaning of the world "Teyandee", but in the first episode, Yattarou also says "Yattarou ja ne ka"... He often says this phrase, and Discotek Media translated it as "Hey, let me do a beautiful job", but a friend of mine who talk a bit of Japanese, suggested this translation for "Yattarou ja ne ka!



What do you think about it? ^^