Edoropolis Emporium
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
February 22, 2024, 03:34:49 pm

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
50622 Posts in 1817 Topics by 2629 Members
Latest Member: DerrickHau
* Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
+  Edoropolis Emporium
|-+  Samurai Pizza Cats
| |-+  Teyandee! Discussion
| | |-+  The Good, The Bad, and The Censored - KNT DVD Reviews
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5 Print
Author Topic: The Good, The Bad, and The Censored - KNT DVD Reviews  (Read 62097 times)
TigrissOffline
wields the pan of justice
*
Posts: 661

[insert witty quote or comment here]

View Profile WWW Email
« on: April 30, 2013, 05:22:35 am »

My DVDs arrived today, so I sat down to watch the first three episodes and compare them to the three that we managed to get subtitled with Project Dream. This thread is for general reviews of the KNT boxed set overall, as well as how they handled translations. Anyone else who wants can participate and add to this thread, but for more detailed individual episode reviews, please post them in the Critic's Corner.

Names and titles

First off, the names. Yes, some of the names are cringe-worthy, but unfortunately, since Tatsunoko's to blame, we can't really do anything about it. Thankfully, "Onmitsu" really was just a typo. Instead of "Omi-chan", they call her "Miss Omitsu", which isn't too bad. Still hoping for the day when honorifics are included in official subs, but it's good enough for now. One very frustrating mistake I noticed, however, was that Matsukichi's name was changed to "Shokichi", which was just an incompetent error. Also, Gennarisai's name appears to have been shortened to just "Gennari".

And then there are other titles. "Lord" Korn would be fine, if it weren't for the silly romanization of his name, but I've noticed Wanko-no-kami is being called "Master" instead of "Lord", despite sharing the same title with Ko'on-no-kami. It's a little odd and unnecessary, but I figure they're probably doing that to emphasize the the difference in rank between the two of them. Karamaru is also called "Master" Karamaru when the crows address him as "Karamaru-sama". Oh, and for some reason, the term "Nyankee Trio" is used instead of "Secret Ninja Team Nyanki", despite that being in the title of the first episode.

Correction: I previously made a complaint about Wanko-no-kami's position as "oometsuke" being translated as "Superintendent General". But it can, in fact, mean "superintendent general" or "inspector general". In the Hamada Yoshimi story, it was defined as "Ministry of Intelligence of the Shogunate". Either way, my mistake for getting confused. I might have been mixing up "oometsuke" and "roujuu" at the time.

Censorship and other changes

Perhaps more frustrating than anything else, it appears that Discotek has taken it upon themselves to censor a few things. This is very aggravating. Ko'on-no-kami's line about Wanko-no-kami possibly being a "homo" was both funny and ironic, since it becomes clear in later episodes just how hard he's projecting here. I was expecting them to maybe soften up the insult a little by having the word just be "gay", but the dialogue was instead changed to "Oh, ho. So you won't do it yourself, but rely on others, Master Wanko?" Minus ten points to whoever decided to rewrite that line. If you're boasting this as the uncut version of the show, don't go around trying to "clean" it up for content, either.





What he actually says.

Then something REALLY dumb happened. Ko'on said that Wanko would use "ninja samurai". Um, excuse me?? Moments later, Gennarisai chimes in saying that they won't be beaten by such "cheap samurai" without mentioning ninja at all! What?! This isn't SPC, guys! The Nyanki were never samurai at all! I can understand that Discotek had no choice about the names, but this kind of blatant censoring and line-changing is BAD, and I'd better not be seeing anymore of it.







The Nyanki are NINJA, not samurai! This is "Kyattou Ninden Teyandee" not "Samurai Pizza Cats".


Translation overall and other stuff

There are a few random goofs: Sometimes the translation is pretty loose, and other times, they even botch up the English a bit. In episode three, Sukashii says "Gee, I was looking forward to having that some nice tea." And later in the same episode, Karamaru tells the hostages that they are to dig the tunnel "from now" instead of "from now on". I guess they could've used a better proofreader. The "Iroha set" was called the "ABC combo" in the second episode, which is a rough approximation, I guess. Instead of saying how "humiliating" his defeats were, Ko'on now goes on about how "vexing" they were. Meh. I did, however, have a good unintentional laugh when he mentioned being "all hot and bothered" before he was about to explode in the second episode. I thought you were cleaning up the content, Discotek, not adding in unnecessary innuendo. >;]


I was also not too fond of "Kuma-san, Ha-san, everyone in the streets" being changed to "To every Tom, Dick, and Harry in the neighborhood" in the opening credits, as well as a few other things, like "In Edoropolis, there's never a dull moment" instead of "Edoropolis hysterics". The ending credits are a little bit better.


I also wish they had gone to the trouble of translating some of the signs and text that you see in the show. The worst and most noticeable instance was when the news leaflets were talking about the missing palanquin train in episode three, and nary a word of it was translated. Wordplay and puns also seem to be ignored, as the translation of the robot names are pretty straightforward with no explanations (I was rather disappointed that "Robo Scoop" was just "Robot Shovel"), and there was no substitute for our clever "Gotton it"/"Get on it" line.

Almost as frustrating as this and the romanization of the names is how they dealt with "Teyandee". It gets replaced with whatever they can think up on a whim. At one point in the third episode, it was even subtitled as "Jebus!", which caused me to burst out laughing at how hilariously bad that was. And this next part could even count as more censorship. When the professor guy is explaining about how "Teyandee" is Yattarou's favorite catchphrase, the subs are written instead as "Oh, Yattaro is so hasty and he never changes." C'mon, guys, really?





The real translation.


Yattarou sums up how I feel about bad line changes.

But by far the most bizarre part about this is that "Teyandee" is left completely in tact with no attempt at a translation or explanation at the end of each episode preview. Really? You could leave "Teyandee" alone there, but you had to change it for the rest of the episode? That's just confusing. "Teyandee" is a defining part of the series (it's in the title and everything!), and while I'm not surprised it was changed, I am disappointed. They at least could been consistent and called it something else.


In closing

After all my complaints, I'm sure some of you out there who haven't purchased the DVDs yet might be hesitating to do so. Well, don't. This is your chance to have all 54 episodes of KNT officially released, with subtitles. The picture and sound quality are great for a show as old as this one. It's nice to have the option to watch the show on my TV as well as my computer. The DVDs come in a nice package (just ignore the names and typos on the back) and the discs look like mini pizzas with flowers and the shapes of the helmet crystals for the "toppings". And while the translation has a lot of flaws, it's passable overall. Project Dream has been put on hold indefinitely, and we wouldn't want to prevent sales from Discotek anyway. Maybe a re-subbing project can be put together sometime in the future to clear up all the little mistakes and irritations. But for now, supporting the official release is the best thing you can do to show your appreciation as a fan for these long-awaited DVD sets.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 08:35:58 am by Tigriss » Logged

Left my heart in Edoropolis
felinekiOffline
Nyanki***Male
Posts: 1409

(AIM) felineki
View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2013, 06:58:45 pm »

I wonder if the rewrite of the "homo" line was simply due to being unable to come up with a translation for the connotation of "kare". At any rate, they took what was a pretty ironic joke and made it into... something that isn't really a joke at all, as far as I can tell. I'm a little worried, because lots of people were unwilling to give Teyandee a shot from the get-go, and now if the"official" translation messes up the jokes, that's even less incentive for people to buy and watch it. Once my copy arrives, I'll share any thoughts I have.
Logged

- "I have not yet begun to fight! You ain't seen nothing yet!"
- "Wow, two cliches in a row..."

Like KNT's music? Like MIDIs? Click here!
VioletOffline
*Female
Posts: 1331

But it's a cute iron fist.

(AIM) prncssvi
View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2013, 09:37:33 pm »

Great review, Tig, just like the old days when we used to do the email newsletter.  I have my DVD and after waiting all these years I haven't unsealed it yet.  Well, I did just get it yesterday, but I want to savor it and watch a bit at a time and only when I can properly enjoy it without being distracted.

I'm sure all of us dedicated fans who have been waiting for so long are a bit disappointed in the translation job, BUT, I have seen worse, and if it wasn't for Discotek's DVD I would have bought the Japanese version with no subtitles, so the way I look at it, it's not as big of a win as it had the potential to be, but it is a win none the less!  We old fans will just have more interesting facts to share with the new fans.

And I'm 100% in agreement that Pizza Cats fans need to support this and buy it, preferably direct from Discotek.  I had no problem sharing episodes online when that was the only way, but now it's time to put our money where our fandom is and help make this a success.
Logged

おお くるしゅうない
* Princess Vi's Spiffy Diffy Page * http://www.edoropolis.org/violet/
* Violet's Toybox * http://membres.lycos.fr/spctoys/
* 日本語ナビ *  http://www.edoropolis.org/violet/jpnv.html
usbcheaterOffline
I guess i should have use Kelleth as my forum name
Ninja Crow*Male
Posts: 20

View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2013, 09:00:07 am »

Thank you for the great review. I made sure to pass it around a bit like on the Discotek FB page. I've been putting off the buy last month due to money issues. And I did want to buy it this month but seeing this it has put me off a bit. I am still going to get it, but I waited for so long I think I can wait a bit longer and use the money for something equally disappointing but more limited. Grin
Logged
sans soulOffline
星状体 カラス
*Female
Posts: 689

(AIM) burdenedwings
View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2013, 05:04:36 pm »

I was hoping there would be a really nice in-depth review like this. Awesome job Tigriss! I like your use of imagery to show the differences in translations, that was helpful. It also clarifies just how different the quality of the Discotek release is compared to the older episodes we've got. I'm sure there will be more examples to come, but it's a good start.

Man the translation errors are a total bummer... but I'll be honest. I'm more interested in seeing the new release of SPC over KNT. Nostalgia, y'know? Regardless, this is a good thing when it all comes down to it.

*
Logged

PizzaCatFanOffline
Rescue Team**Male
Posts: 89

(MSN) animefan1229@hotmail.com(Yahoo) animefan_1229(AIM) animefan1229
View Profile
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2013, 06:06:09 pm »

I just want to say this review was well thought out.  It reminds me when anime reviews were a more common practice, done BY fans FOR fans, pointing out positives "AND' negatives......not just the former like I see nowadays.

While it is the English adaption Samurai Pizza Cats that I am more anxiously awaiting, I bought the KNT set as well and it should be here by tomorrow (Thur) or Friday.  I plan to take in some episodes over the weekend and give my own take.  It will be all new to me, what with the far-improved video, and all the little snippets that were excised for time or other reasons from the English adaption.  Those screencap comparisons you put up are telling, plus finally having 'fine tuned' the color/sharpness and other settings on both my BluRay player and TV (linked together via HDMI), the series is going to look quite good, even despite the film masters they used being over 20 years old.

As for subs, ditto what Vi said.....I too have seen worse in the world of anime, especially those on many titles released in the 1990s/early 2000s.  There's some distributors out there to this day yet with completely newer shows (and especially with the fanbase wanting instant streaming subs.....thus the subtitle work is all done in Japan), who use completely literal translations that sound more like broken English more than a naturally-flowing script.

I do have to give them props for the effort and even having the guts to release this version.  They could have just put out SPC and been done with it, but that's not how Discotek does things.  I don't think I'll be seriously disappointed with KNT by the sound of it.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 06:14:55 pm by PizzaCatFan » Logged
usbcheaterOffline
I guess i should have use Kelleth as my forum name
Ninja Crow*Male
Posts: 20

View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2013, 04:49:52 pm »

Hmm I posted the link to this review on the comment section of the Discotek facebook page and now the comment section has been removed. Guess they can't have some well pointed out criticism. Even though this review is still telling fans to actually buy the set  Annoyed
Logged
PizzaCatFanOffline
Rescue Team**Male
Posts: 89

(MSN) animefan1229@hotmail.com(Yahoo) animefan_1229(AIM) animefan1229
View Profile
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2013, 05:56:39 pm »

The problem is that it's Facebook.  Everyone sees it, and since it's the medium Discotek uses for marketing / PR, they probably want no negative 'anything' being seen by the masses.  It would have been seen by me, but I can handle a thorough review by someone who's more a dedicated fan than some online anime webcast or news / review site.

This is why I don't do reviewing / analysis as a career, and when doing so online, I only do so among people who know the medium of anime (or at least the shows / genres I'm familiar with) well enough to have say, and NEVER on Facebook.  I don't do butt-kissing (gaming sites are notorious for this).  I praise what deserves praise, and point out flaws when they're called for, and in a tactful way at that.

Facebook is a terrible medium for advertising / marketing purposes, end of the story.  I'll never understand why companies are jumping onto the social media bandwagon if they don't like having negatives pointed at them.  This is an area where fan sites and forums still hold up, and why they still exist......to offer unfiltered reviews in areas where sites like Facebook, Amazon and so on, can filter / censor out any negatives.  It's pathetic, really.

Anyways, I digress.

I got my set today, only had time to spot check some details....mainly in the audio-visual area.  The audio is mono (as was most anime broadcast on TV in 1990 yet..Japan was slower than the U.S. to catch onto the 'In stereo where available' craze), but it sounds well and good enough considering this show aired in 1990-91.  The video is, in one word, exceptional, at least to my eyes.  The clean OP especially.......Wow!  Better than most transfers....I'd say on par with.VIZ's handling of Maison Ikkoku, and FUNimation's Slayers reissues, and clearly better than Ranma 1/2 which was clearly from videotape masters.

Oh, and the subs are nice and bold without being too large and intrusive.  Easy for me to read, and my sight isn't all that grand as it is.  I compared it to Pioneer/Geneon's subtitle work which I always felt for myself and others with not-so-perfect vision, as being hard to read.  As a comparison, I recently re-watched a few episodes of Cardcaptor Sakura.  I don't care if they (Pioneer) followed DVD specs to a T.....DVD consortium specs make for horrible fonts and too thin/narrow of typeface.  My poor eyesight can't deal with that.  Kudos to Tatsunoko/Discotek for making this a, for once, bearable subtitle job that's easy on the eyes.

I'll get into the meat of the show....the actual episodes themselves, real soon.  In my spot checking, I already noticed some new scenes that Saban snipped in their English adaption that I'm so familiar with.  A mini-marathon is in order.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 09:44:35 am by PizzaCatFan » Logged
sans soulOffline
星状体 カラス
*Female
Posts: 689

(AIM) burdenedwings
View Profile WWW
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2013, 11:42:32 pm »

Mini-marathons ftw, can't wait to hear more! Too bad about the FB page removing the link.. ah well. Maybe we can get a link posted to something more cheery to attract facebook fans to the forum? Just a thought. I rather like having a big collection of SPC folk around  Smiley

*
Logged

TigrissOffline
wields the pan of justice
*
Posts: 661

[insert witty quote or comment here]

View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2013, 09:09:27 am »

Hmm I posted the link to this review on the comment section of the Discotek facebook page and now the comment section has been removed.

Err, I'm kinda not too happy you did that. :/ This was a pretty critical review, after all, even if I am glad to have it and would encourage others to buy it anyway. I thought about sending Discotek another e-mail, but more nicely worded than what I've written here. In the future, maybe you should ask before you do something like that.

I wonder if the rewrite of the "homo" line was simply due to being unable to come up with a translation for the connotation of "kare".

I doubt that. It's not really that hard, as we proved with our Project Dream subs. They weren't shy about changing the professor's line about "Teyandee" or adding in "ninja samurai" either, so it just smacks of censorship to me.

Great review, Tig, just like the old days when we used to do the email newsletter.

Yeah, those were the days. I guess I still get the urge to write a big long article now and then.

And I'm 100% in agreement that Pizza Cats fans need to support this and buy it, preferably direct from Discotek.  I had no problem sharing episodes online when that was the only way, but now it's time to put our money where our fandom is and help make this a success.

Ditto. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from buying them at all, I'm just giving my opinions on it.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 09:16:25 am by Tigriss » Logged

Left my heart in Edoropolis
usbcheaterOffline
I guess i should have use Kelleth as my forum name
Ninja Crow*Male
Posts: 20

View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2013, 01:54:54 pm »

Err, I'm kinda not too happy you did that. Annoyed This was a pretty critical review, after all, even if I am glad to have it and would encourage others to buy it anyway. I thought about sending Discotek another e-mail, but more nicely worded than what I've written here. In the future, maybe you should ask before you do something like that.

Sorry, my sincere apologies, I did not know I wasn't to post it there, and I though it get more users one the forums  Sad
Logged
sans soulOffline
星状体 カラス
*Female
Posts: 689

(AIM) burdenedwings
View Profile WWW
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2013, 02:04:02 pm »

I'm sure no harm was done.

.... (no pun intended)

I don't think advertising EE to SPC communities elsewhere is a bad idea at all, which brings me back to my previous comment about something more "cheery". I have a tendency to drop EE's message board link on dA a bit in comments if I think the poster, or fans of the artist's work would be interested.

If I was some random artist drawing SPC related work, chances are good that I probably feel like I'm one of those very few people who even remember the show.. So if somebody left me a link to a community of fans, I'd be super psyched. Maybe that's just me, but I'd be glad that someone was trying to clue me in rather than leave me in the dark  Polly Wink (And that goes for writers and reviewers, too)

*
Logged

felinekiOffline
Nyanki***Male
Posts: 1409

(AIM) felineki
View Profile Email
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2013, 01:36:20 pm »

My DVDs arrived yesterday. I'll give more detailed thoughts later, but the biggest problem I've noticed so far is that the timing of all the subtitles in episode 9 are off. Every line is displayed one line too early. That's a pretty major screw-up.

It seems the translators have made a running gag of translating "Teyandee!" as something different every time during the opening narration before every episode. Some of the more exotic examples include "Stop! Pizza Time!" and "Catabunga!"
« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 04:55:29 pm by felineki » Logged

- "I have not yet begun to fight! You ain't seen nothing yet!"
- "Wow, two cliches in a row..."

Like KNT's music? Like MIDIs? Click here!
sans soulOffline
星状体 カラス
*Female
Posts: 689

(AIM) burdenedwings
View Profile WWW
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2013, 05:40:18 pm »

It seems the translators have made a running gag of translating "Teyandee!" as something different every time during the opening narration before every episode. Some of the more exotic examples include "Stop! Pizza Time!" and "Catabunga!"

Looks like we're just gonna have to roll with their new addition of humor. I sense a Teyandee meme in the making...
Logged

felinekiOffline
Nyanki***Male
Posts: 1409

(AIM) felineki
View Profile Email
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2013, 08:02:32 pm »

A couple more censored lines: Daisensei asks Pururun to bet on the size of her first litter rather than on which of her breasts is bigger, and Yattarou and Sukashii call Pururun a tomboy instead of flat-chested. Gennarisai and Koon no Kami's exchange about Sasanishiki #4's "parts" was changed to something less risque about gears.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 09:55:48 pm by felineki » Logged

- "I have not yet begun to fight! You ain't seen nothing yet!"
- "Wow, two cliches in a row..."

Like KNT's music? Like MIDIs? Click here!
PizzaCatFanOffline
Rescue Team**Male
Posts: 89

(MSN) animefan1229@hotmail.com(Yahoo) animefan_1229(AIM) animefan1229
View Profile
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2013, 02:53:56 pm »

......the biggest problem I've noticed so far is that the timing of all the subtitles in episode 9 are off. Every line is displayed one line too early. That's a pretty major screw-up.

Ditto with episode 9 on my set.  Seems the subtitle script person didn't even bother to double-check the timing with that one.  Is it that hard to follow the time-code on the master and make sure it shows up and disappears right at the correct time?  I mean, geeze, I can do such things on Roxio Creator with ease.

Asleep at the workstation perhaps?  Meh.

Usually when stuff like this happens (and it's quite rare) with bigger distributors, they usually correct it and offer a replacement program.  Trouble is, KNT was an outsource sub and is being offered through a small niche label, not in-house like a larger company such as FUNimation will have.  An unfortunate outcome it seems.

At least so far everything else (other episodes, OPs, EDs) are timed well enough to follow along.
Logged
robleyOffline
Ninja Crow*Male
Posts: 8

View Profile WWW
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2013, 10:05:23 pm »

Thanks for the review!  I'm a bit bummed to hear about the less than stellar subs, but as Vi mentioned, getting the DVDs is a win regardless! As for some of the puns/difficult to translate jokes or sayings, it would have been cool if they could have included translator notes, whether in the extras section of the DVDs, as a booklet, or on a website. Granted this kind of thing being created officially is pretty rare, but it would have been helpful and perhaps could have helped avoid some of the changes that were made (or at least presented an opportunity for them to explain their choices). But oh well, since Discotek didn't, I'm sure those in the community versed in the Japanese version will compile and explain such things for us, as is already starting to happen in this thread. Keep up the good work, guys!

This is making me pretty excited! I still don't have my copy yet, unfortunately. Hopefully it should arrive this week, though!
Logged
PizzaCatFanOffline
Rescue Team**Male
Posts: 89

(MSN) animefan1229@hotmail.com(Yahoo) animefan_1229(AIM) animefan1229
View Profile
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2013, 12:38:04 am »

A proper KNT / SPC Wiki is really in order for such a feat.  Plenty of other anime that are far more popular and known have them.  So too should this series.

It is good to hear your at least still excited for this, despite the obvious flaws.  Like you and Vi both said, it's surprising enough that they got KNT and put it out making it a rare thing to see, despite Tatsunoko's subbing job.  SPC is probably going to be the bigger seller so they are probably aiming to make that more closer to perfection.

I have a hard time faulting Discotek...if they've only one fault here, it's that they didn't send it back and have Tatsunoko correct the errors, or correct the errors themselves.  They being a smaller anime distributor and the hassle/cost probably too much to bother with the Japanese version that's only of interest to a small bunch, however, kinda makes it near-impossible.  Disappointing, if only a little, but I'm still having a blast with KNT, seeing all the cut-out snippets and scenes.  Especially like how they had little 'omake' shorts and character profiles (Cardcaptor Sakura did much the same in its earlier episodes), giving full character bios and little tidbits about them.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 12:44:22 am by PizzaCatFan » Logged
CatNinjaLegendOffline
Ninja Crow*
Posts: 7
View Profile
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2013, 01:31:26 am »

The random use of early '90s references like "Catabunga!" combined with the simplification/toning down of some jokes, kind of makes you wonder how the English dub would have turned out if the original dialog was kept.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 01:42:17 am by CatNinjaLegend » Logged
Cheezit84Offline
Ninja Crow*
Posts: 16
View Profile Email
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2013, 05:49:31 pm »

This is a silly question, but can you turn the subtitles off?

I may pre order a set, though when should they have more in stock?
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!